[Tfug] Spy Bill Debate Comes to an End

Sun Jul 13 19:12:11 MST 2008

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ben Slote" <bslote at gmail.com>
To: "Tucson Free Unix Group" <tfug at tfug.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Tfug] Spy Bill Debate Comes to an End

> On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 6:50 PM, johngalt1 <johngalt1>
> wrote:
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "keif smif" <klsmif2020>
>> To: "Tucson Free Unix Group" <tfug at tfug.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 9:09 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Tfug] Spy Bill Debate Comes to an End
>>
>>
>> > The violate my rights by not obtaining a search warrant
>> > per the 4th Amendment.
>>
>> Your rights are/were violated... hypothetically?
>>
>> Oh....
>>
>> *Do you believe they HAVE searched YOU?
>>
>> They are reading your emails.
>>
>> They are listening to your phone conversations.
>>
>> They are doing .... what else to you?*
>
>
> "When the Nazis came for the communists,
> I remained silent;
> I was not a communist."

Nice try. This is irrelevant to my arguement.

> Sure, they may not be spying on _him_. But we
> _collectively_, as American
> citizens, have certain unalienable rights. Why turn a
> blind eye because you
> directly are not a target?

Who says that I'm not directly a target? I have no way of
knowing that, just as Keith has no way of knowing that.

If Keith had answered the questions directly, and not take 
the Fifth, we might have arrived at that possibility sooner 
instead of wasting time with proxies. But, thanks for having 
the courage to address the issue raised.

Let's say Keith had boundless funding to sue the government
over the warrantless wiretapping issue. Keith's attorneys
would claim some harm or damage to him. Engaging in their
own fishing expedition, plantiff's attorneys would cite
anecdotes like at A T&T in Sa n Fran cisco where the fiber
went in and out of the secret room, and justify vast
quantities of subponeas in an attempt to expose the
violations to our unalienable rights. Then defendants would
cite secrecy needs based on national security. If the
lawsuit could continue, it would take place behind closed
doors.

In the meantime, equipment at that secret room would be
removed or cleansed and an alternate location or system
would be substituted.

What is the net result? Well intentioned people are stirred
up into frenzied hysterics that ultimately lead to
supporting or discrediting "PAC A" versus "PAC B", "Party A"
versus "Party B", or "Corporate interest group A" versus
"Corporate interest group B".

Blogs are written, "diggs" are cast, and bombasts like olber
mann and sav age rant. Hal Lin dsey, Wi lliam B lum, 521
groups, neoc ons, E FF, a clu, heri tage foundation, mov
eon.or g, fre espeech tv and funda menta list chris tian TV
receive funding to further their "non-profit" group, (but
ultimately their salaries must be supported, so why not heap
fuel on the inferno, of their own doing, to their own
benefit). And more importantly, democR ATS and reTH UGlicans
compete to assume and wield power. Then they garner the
profit off it.

That's where it all ends up baby, CASH, cold hard cash.
Please don't get so worked up about things you ultimately
can't control or affect. People that you don't know, that
don't have your interests at heart, are manipulating your
fear to profit from it.

Please don't attempt to define my position by saying I
advocate inaction. Just don't get your underwear in a bunch,
crying "my rights have been violated", when in order to
claim that, you must infer some harm done.

Of course to say "infer" does minimize things, but I do so 
to balance some of the hysterical lunacy of the infowars 
kooks. What would Schneier say?

The warrantless wiretapping concerns me. But if Obam a
voted for it, he must have had a good reason.

>>
>>
>> Have you considered you might be taking 3G media
>> equivalents
>> of the National Enquirer too literally?
>>
>> In TFUG, I see k* s* references to Ale x Jo nes, and info
>> wa
>> rs.com
>>
>> If you like those sites, why not consider viewing
>>
>> http://www.killinghope.org
>>
>> http://truthout.org
>>
>> HAVE FUN!
>>
>>
>> P.S.
>> If anyone thinks I'm off-base or otherwise ignorant,
>> please
>> explain.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------
>> > Keith Smith
>> > (520) 207-9877
>> > PHP Programmer
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Wed, 7/9/08, johngalt1 <johngalt1 at uswest.net>
>> > wrote:
>> > From: johngalt1 <johngalt1 at uswest.net>
>> > Subject: Re: [Tfug] Spy Bill Debate Comes to an End
>> > To: "Tucson Free Unix Group" <tfug at tfug.org>
>> > Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 9:03 PM
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "keith smith" <klsmith2020>
>> > To: <tfug at tfug.org>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 3:08 PM
>> > Subject: [Tfug] Spy Bill Debate Comes to an End
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I can't believe what I read on ABCnews.com - Spy Bill
>> >> Debate Comes to an End
>> >>
>> >> I posted my rant on Craigslist.org -
>> >> http://tucson.craigslist.org/pol/748692546.html
>> >>
>> >> All I can say is I need a blog.
>> >
>> > Yes, you probably do.
>> >
>> > When you say,
>> >> why do we need a bill that violated my rights as an
>> >> American Citizen?
>> >
>> > I would like to hear how your rights were violated.
>> > What
>> > happened to you?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Posted on
>> >> Tucson Free Unix Group
>> >> PLUG
>> >> AZPHP
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------
>> >> Keith Smith
>> >> (520) 207-9877
>> >> PHP Programmer
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>> >> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1543 -
>> >> Release
>> >> Date: 7/9/2008 6:32 PM
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> >
>> >
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>> >
>> >
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>> > Date: 7/9/2008 6:32 PM
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1545 - Release
> Date: 7/10/2008 6:43 PM
>
>

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