[Tfug] ubuntu (troll?)

Tue Apr 15 11:23:41 MST 2008

I subscribed to TFUG to (yet again) try to learn more about linux.

Quoting William Stott <WStott at ventanamed.com>:

> Michael -
>
> I have an idea that both meets your needs, AND allows you to grasp the *nix
> environment at your own pace (which sounds to me like a snail who lost his
> way into a field of salt...). Go purchase a Mac. It is easy to learn, costs
> as much as buying a pc with Windows, and runs a fully certified *nix
> environment underneath the pretty, easy GUI that you so deserve.
> Essentially, here are your options (IMHO): cost, functionality, ease of
> use... Pick two. If that is not acceptable, then either help by contribution
> of solutions or STFU. There are many people who are not considered Œtechies¹
> that use products like Mac OS X, Linux (several distros), and UNIX-based
> systems that are able to take care of their needs without the concern of
> technical expertise. If you are not one of them, and you have no inclination
> to be one of them, and you have no initiative to become a Œtechie¹ or
> utilize the tools that are offered by the products that are available to you
> at little or no cost....well, then why did you subscribe to TFUG? To bitch
> about it?
>
> By the way, if computers don¹t seem to work for you...there¹s always the
> alternative, manual process. Maybe that is a better solution.
>
> Will
>
> P.S.
>
> I am now out of food for the troll. Thanks for listening.
>
>
> On 4/15/08 10:50 AM, "Andrew Ayre" <andy at britishideas.com> wrote:
>
>> Saying:
>>
>> "Because such simplicity is abhorent to many techies, I really doubt
>> linux is going anywhere. It is a lost cause."
>>
>> Is either a statement with no basic research and understanding, or is a
>> statement designed to make people irritated (i.e. trolling).
>>
>> Which is it?
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> sitkaa at email.arizona.edu wrote:
>>> > I don't consider myself a troll. actually, if you knew me, you would thik
>>> that
>>> > is funny. That you see my feedback as trolling only exemplifies my
>>> > point: there
>>> > is a bridgable divide between the technically inclined and the not-so. It
>>> is
>>> > unlikely that this bridge will ever be more than a footbridge 
>>> swaying in >>
> the
>>> > wind simply because techies couldn't give a hoot about making 
>>> linux simple.
>>> >
>>> > I agree I could take some courses so I could figure out to use the
>>> operating
>>> > system. All I really want to do is use the computer for simple 
>>> things like
>>> > office stuff, connecting to the internet, organizing and storing 
>>> files, and
>>> > maybe listening to some internet-based music. Does taking a class at Pima
>>> > College (it is cheaper then the University) seem like an awful 
>>> lot of work
>>> to
>>> > anyone besides me? I not, then I suppose I am a troll.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Grrrrrrr!
>>> > Michael
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Quoting "Eric M. Gearhart" <eric at nixwizard.net>:
>>> >
>>>> >> Yes I would agree with the "don't feed the troll" post - are you
>>>> >> seriously asking for help or are you just trolling this list?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Techies "turn wrenches" and get stuff working... there is a level of
>>>> >> "polish" lacking from Linux right now, but there are projects
>>>> >> underway that are trying to address that situation (openSUSE, Ubuntu,
>>>> >> etc.)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Eric
>>>> >> http://nixwizard.net
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> >> From: sitkaa at email.arizona.edu
>>>> >> To: tfug at tfug.org
>>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:49:49 AM GMT -07:00 U.S. Mountain
>>>> >> Time (Arizona)
>>>> >> Subject: Re: [Tfug] ubuntu
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I am the itinerate newbie regards to linux. I have been 
>>>> interested in it
>>>> for
>>>> >> over a decade, but haven't hadn't loaded it on my main computer 
>>>> until >>>
> just
>>>> >> recently, primarily because of the because of the difficulty involved
>>>> >> in doing
>>>> >> a dual boot, but also due to a lack of anyone to hold my hand to degree
>>>> >> neccessary to get past first base. I can hear the chorus already saying
>>>> >> that it
>>>> >> is so much easier now with this application and that, but to me it is
>>>> still
>>>> >> written in Greek for all I know.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I don't know how to use linux, I don't know what applications are
>>>> >> available for
>>>> >> it, and frankly, after a decade of watching this whole thing, I have
>>>> gotten
>>>> >> pretty disgusted with it. The promise of linux is unfulfilled. I don't
>>>> like
>>>> >> Microsoft, but at least I can understand it.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> You want to attract more than just techies to linux? Make it is
>>>> >> sooooooo freakin
>>>> >> simple I can understand it. I don't care one iota how little
>>>> functionality it
>>>> >> has, I really only wanna push one button, and then have the damn thing
>>>> >> work. If
>>>> >> it can't do that, it is too complicated.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Because such simplicity is abhorent to many techies, I really 
>>>> doubt linux
> is
>>>> >> going anywhere. It is a lost cause. I suppose I will be 
>>>> sticking with the
>>>> >> spyware, malware, constant updates, NSA backdoors, and
>>>> >> anticompetitive busines
>>>> >> practices of Microsoft as long as I live, cause you people can't grasp
>>>> >> just how
>>>> >> stupid and lazy I am.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Quoting Earl <earljviolet at juno.com>:
>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> I used virtual box with 98 for a while and it worked OK for the
>>>>> >>> limited testing I did. I finally deleted it because all I did was
>>>>> >>> update spyware and virus programs and run them.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Earl
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> "God made man, Sam Colt made men equal."
>>>>> >>> "The fates guide him who will, him who won't they drag" Spengler
>>>>> >>> "I want to change the world but they won't give me the source code"
>>>>> >>> Unknown Linux Geek
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> -- Malcolm Schmerl <mjs355 at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>> >>> Jim March wrote:
>>>>>> >>>> On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 10:22 AM, Jeffry Johnston 
>>>>>> <tfug at kidsquid.com
>>>>>> >>>> <mailto:tfug at kidsquid.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>> He told the other that it wasn't as nice as windows, but it
>>>>>> >>>> worked pretty good.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Probably running Gnome... KDE is nicer than windows ;)
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Jeff
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> The real indicator as to whether or not somebody is going to jump
>>>>>> >>>> cleanly into Ubuntu or any other newbie-friendly distro is 
>>>>>> whether or
>>>>>> >>>> not they have somebody experienced to help with initial tuning and
>>>>>> >>>> setup. Multimedia support for starters, DVD playback, MP3 
>>>>>> codec, all
>>>>>> >>>> that happy $hit :).
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Gnome v. KDE means a lot less in my opinion.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> For REAL success, get VirtualBox running with an XP VM for 
>>>>>> those few
>>>>>> >>>> programs or times we still need Windows. A LOT of users 
>>>>>> will have at
>>>>>> >>>> least one such app, in my case the ones I need most involve playing
>>>>>> >>>> with election databases.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> This works with surprisingly little horsepower. I'm pulling it off
>>>>>> >>>> with a single-core Celeron 1.6 lappy, lowly Intel945 video and
>>>>>> 1.5gigs
>>>>>> >>>> RAM. And it'll work in a lot less than that.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Oddity on that score:
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> I rented a video recently that flat wouldn't play under Ubuntu. I
>>>>>> >>>> tuned and tweaked and tried VLC player, updated LIBDVDCSS, etc. No
>>>>>> >>>> joy. If anyone cares, it was the video-only final conclusion to
>>>>>> >>>> Stargate SG1 :). Finally I said "screw it", loaded XP, 
>>>>>> downloaded VLC
>>>>>> >>>> for that and watched my friggin' video :).
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> But here's the kicker for a newbie:
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> You explain that when they're on the 'net in Ubuntu,
>>>>>> >>>> EMail/web/whatever, they're basically immune from
>>>>>> >>>> viruses/spyware/crapware.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> THAT they get. Bigtime. The number of newbies getting hammered by
>>>>>> >>>> malware is just crazy...that is BY FAR the number one reason a
>>>>>> >>>> non-techie will consider Linux.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> You also have to explain that running XP or whatever as a 
>>>>>> VM task is
>>>>>> >>>> much safer than dual-boot because Linux shields Windows. 
>>>>>> You lose 3D
>>>>>> >>>> video support and gaming, but short of that it works.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Jim
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >>>> Tucson Free Unix Group - tfug at tfug.org
>>>>>> >>>> Subscription Options:
>>>>>> >>>> http://www.tfug.org/mailman/listinfo/tfug_tfug.org
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>> Jim,
>>>>> >>> The problem with Windows, as I see it, besides the mal-ware 
>>>>> problem, is
>>>>> >>> that you get caught in a constant cycle of hardware and software
>>>>> >>> upgrades. We use an old copy of Quickbooks, which is 
>>>>> perfectly adequate
>>>>> >>> for our business and which ran perfectly well on Windows 98, but has
>>>>> >>> problems on XP and will cost $200 to upgrade. I use an old 
>>>>> machine (AMD
>>>>> >>> 750) which works just fine with Ubuntu. Will Virtualbox work with
>>>>> >>> Windows 98 or ME? This really sounds like a way for me to go. Thanks
> for
>>>>> >>> the idea, Malcolm
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >>> Tucson Free Unix Group - tfug at tfug.org
>>>>> >>> Subscription Options:
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>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> _____________________________________________________________
>>>>> >>> Lose up to 20 lbs in one month with a new diet. Click here.
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>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >>> Tucson Free Unix Group - tfug at tfug.org
>>>>> >>> Subscription Options:
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>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> Tucson Free Unix Group - tfug at tfug.org
>>>> >> Subscription Options:
>>>> >> http://www.tfug.org/mailman/listinfo/tfug_tfug.org
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Tucson Free Unix Group - tfug at tfug.org
>>> > Subscription Options:
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>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>
>> --
>> Andy
>> PGP Key ID: 0xDC1B5864
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tucson Free Unix Group - tfug at tfug.org
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>>