[Tfug] Newbie Follow-Up Question

[johngalt]

Bowie:
> Everyone knows the only reason for choosing a distribution is whether it
> sucks or not.

You won the battle but lost the war. The cult of debian (remember that's 
lower case d) triumphed in spite of absolute bullshit like the following:



Harry:
> take a text editor (ie vi, nano, etc), and edit the following
> file: /etc/apt/sources.list
> remove any of the lines in the file, and add these lines instead:
> deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian testing main contrib non-free
-SNIP-
> After you do that, save the file, do an "apt-get update" and then go into
-SNIP AGAIN-
> the dependancies.  Go to "install" in dselect", and it should be alright
> after that.

Asinine. This is exactly the kind of crap mainstream people HATE about Linux. 
If Linux is gonna get out of the hobbyist realm. People have to stop telling
noobies to use beta software that requires an enabler, er, personal bug 
resolution consultant.

If debian stable is too clumsy or ancient, that's a big hint.



Craig:
> > I have reinstalled Debian in lieu of Red Hat. Although
> > I liked the ease of installing Red Hat it seemed
> > difficult to update, I am sure it just of not being
> > familiar it. 

That's right. RH is easy to update. 1.Register 2.Run up2date.


C:
> > If I had my choice I would rather not pay
> > anything even at first.

What are you talking about Craig? With Red Hat you don't HAVE to pay 
for updates. Subscribe as many machines as you want and then switch 
your one free RHN entitlement around. Or use a couple of email addresses 
to sign up with. If you are doing this at work, it's worth 
paying for more...



C:
> > I have several spare hard drives all on removable
> > racks so it is just a matter of easily swapping out
> > hard drives and rebooting so I will also have a Red
> > Hat system to play  with along with Debian and Windows
> > 2000 (the only system I am familiar with at the
> > moment). None of my three systems are dual bootable as
> > I am a bit caution during the learning phase.
>H: 
> Sounds good, learning is good, and learning multiple platforms and
> multiple flavors or distrubtions of platforms is also very good.

Doing this simultaneously sounds like the road to total confusion. 
Another dumbass suggestion. PICK ONE Linux distribution and stick with it 
until you know it. 
Dual booting and removable drives sound cool but IMO, look out 
when you change hardware. Then you have N(X) upgrade journeys
to look forward to. Unless you can't afford a couple of older Pentium
machines to learn on, or are a freak for using too much space, 
avoid the multiple boot hassle.



C:
> > What I want to do is move Pima County into open source
> > systems because they are generally FREE of cost
> > (discounting learning time), secure, and maintainable.
>H: 
> Sounds like a very good idea.

Pima County as in government? No administrator is gonna screw around with
software where you can't readily get formal training from reputable sources 
on demand.
Oops, CIS 225 was cancelled due to lack of interest or no one was available 
to teach it at Pima CC just won't cut it. (this happened to me.) 
Something like Red Hat is the idea instead. 

Saving money sounds like a great idea. But don't forget the bosses get 
paid more as a result of how much money they spend. (The official phrase 
is, budget responsibility) So, if you start suggesting cutting his budget, 
don't be surprised.



C:
> > Red Hat automatically configured my floppy drive and
> > let me boot into X-Windows(Gnome and/or KDE). It also
> > semi-automatically set my default printer to my
> > Lexmark Z22 obviously I am going have to do this
> > manually in Debian. This is no problem as long as I
> > can set things up properly to my liking.
>H: 
> That is the real advantage of having both systems running, you can look
> into the configs that redhat autogenerated, begin to understand them, and
> migrate the configuration to debian.


Uh, using Red Hat to figure out how to configure debian? LOL. ROTFLMAO
Poorly stated. The real advantage of using a professional distro is
that it configures things for you like Red Hat, SUSE.



H:
> > > > Yes, the debian install is a little more painful the first 10-20 times you
> > > > install, but the ease of management in the long run pays for itself in no
> > > > time at all.
> > >
> > > Uhhhh...10 to 20?  Harry? Helllooooo.....
> >
> > Yes, the debian/potato installer isn't nearly as purty or automatic as Red Hat
> > 7.x (or Mandrake 8.x or current SuSE).
>H: 
> But it is just as effective, and gives the user more "power" over the
> install.

This is valid for a guy like Harry who knows the guts inside and out, but no one else. 



H:
> Debian is a very expert friendly distro, it makes things easy, once you
> pass the learning clif, before you pass it, they seem very hard.  It's
> quite strange that most of my students at pima seem to be able to install
> debian on their own after only installing it three or four times as a
> class.  

Expert-friendly? 
Learning clifF? 
Which is it? 10 to 20 times or three to four? 
There's the Harry-centric-overly-complex world again for you.


(three to four)
H:
> This is actualy far less than is normaly required for someone to
> learn how to install Windows 2000 server or Windows 2000 Advanced server.
 
Ridiculous. Yeah, and I remember Harry's preposterous advice when someone lost their 
Windows MBR. (after someone undid a dual-boot) Again, up the garden path....



Bowie:
> ghrprphm... hold on... this flamethrower is heavy.
> 
> grrrhmph.. Ok. (*chik!* *chik!*) Phlooooffffffffffffffffff....barbecue time!
> 
> void flame_on(char *distrib)

Fscking hilarious.



B:
> Why am I the target of ridicule for telling someone the quickest path to
> what they're looking for?

Who's ridiculing you? What he was looking for was a fix for his buggy debian install.

NooB - My Dodge Valiant won't start.
Newman - Ahh, so you seek a car that starts. You need a Chevy. BWAHAAAHHHAAAAHAA

And damned if the NooB does install RedHat! That was quite a coup. EXcellent, Smithers....



Craig:
> > > I don't want to start any flame wars here but I took
> > > their advice and it works for me and I am up and
> > > running. After I have a chance to take CIS 225 at
> > > Pima, perhaps I will switch to Debian but for now Red
> > > Hat works just fine for me.
>B: 
> (chuckle)   ...See?  :)  He's a happy camper. Big smile on his face.

(chuckle)? The smoking gun.

Diabolical, absolutely diabolical...



It's too bad people don't always THINK about what Bowie's saying, 
*and steer around the humor if they don't get it* instead of getting 
an instantaneous boo-boo-lip and killing the messinger.

(My dog beamed that last part into my head....)