[Tfug] Apple Mac OS X: tool of Godless Darwinists and Communist / TROLL ALERT?

[Bexley Hall]

Hi, Bowie,

--- On Mon, 6/22/09, bpoag at comcast.net <bpoag at comcast.net> wrote:

> >On a truly serious note, why do you think people become
> >"zealots"?  (this is not a rhetorical question)  If you
> >*truly* "believe" (whatever you happen to believe), then
> >why care about what others "believe"?  (let's please avoid
> >the cop-out replies...)
> 
> Exactly. I would absolutely agree that zealotry is caused
> by people who have unresolved doubts, deep down... The
> scarier the doubts, the more fiery the zealot. Look at it
> this way---There are people out there who claim to have
> total faith in God, but still feel magnetically drawn to the
> idea of having proof to justify it to others--A shroud in
> this church over here, a supposed fragment of the cross in
> that church over there, all sorts of little fetishes that
> fill in the cracks. All it takes is a Jesus on a tortilla
> for these folks to line up and start sobbing, lighting
> candles, and throwing quarters over the velvet rope.

Understood.  Though please note, I wasn't trying to single
out *religious* zealots.  Rather, *all* zealots.

> I know I love my family, for example. I don't feel
> compelled to prove it, since I know intrinsically. 
> Similarly, I don't need to see a tortilla to know God is
> real, because I know it intrinsically.

Exactly.  A "True Christian" might *like* for you to "be
saved" (whatever that might mean), but I can't see someone
*compelled* to "make you save yourself".

I.e., "smoking is bad", "being overweight is bad", "jumping out
of an airplane without a parachute is bad" -- but, if you want to
*do* them, I don't feel *compelled* to prevent you from doing
so (the gr[ea]y area is when those things have consequential
impact on others; i.e., if *your* obesity ends up costing *me*
more in health insurance premiums, or if your jumping out of
a plane w/o parachute ends up with your carcass falling through
my living room *roof*, etc.)

> There's nothing wrong with inviting people, or
> encouraging people to talk about and learn what you know,
> but bashing people over the head with your religion is
> counterproductive and stupid. By guilt-tripping people into
> religion, you're depriving those individuals of the
> unique and deeply personal connection they need to have with
> God....A connection that doesn't require a damn tortilla
> to bolster. 

Yes (though I am distressed at howmuch this is focusing on
"religion").  I had a lover many years ago who was a "holy
roller".  I recall engaging her in an argument about the
existence of God.  After "toying" with her for 15 minutes,
I smiled sadly and said, "You miss the point.  If *you* have
FAITH, then that is *the* answer; trying to rationally
argue for God's existence turns your religion into a
science or pseudo-science (i.e., something that can be
*proven*)"

> I am a Christian, and i'll be the first to tell you
> that Christianity is absolutely buckshot-peppered with
> layers of stupidity so thick and so complex that it's
> hard even for the most well-meaning individuals to make
> heads or tails of it. I also refuse to believe that the God
> who gave us the ability to think and reason intended for us
> to not use them. Feel free to pick Christianity apart. I do
> all the time. People who call themselves Christians, but are
> then hesitant to take apart and examine their own beliefs in
> detail are fundamentally cowards looking more prefer comfort
> to truth.

Or, use it to rationalize their actions.  E.g., the clown
who executed the abortion doctor.

Buddy Hackett (sp?) has some excellent stand-up routines
where he throws (small) barbs at Christians.  I find it
amusing how readily (some) folks will laugh at these
comments -- yet fail to see the truth in them (much good
humor has truth as its basis).

But, I would hate to focus this discussion on purely "religious"
issues.  I make the same claims about *all* zealots.  E.g.,
whether you're touting your version of gawd, your favorite
restaurant (BTW, *the* best Italian restaurant, IMO, is in
Liverpool; the second and third best are in NYC), your
OS/application of choice or your idea of "the best" pistachio
nuts (hands down, Zenobia) or potato chips (amazing how
fervently chip eaters cling to their favorite brands!)...