[Tfug] experience

[Jeff Breadner]

  > C. Burch wrote:
>>
>> Greetings all,
>>
>> I’ve lurked on the list for a while now without posting so let me 
>> introduce myself a little before I get to my questions. My name is 
>> Christopher Burch and I currently work as an avionics technician on 
>> Davis-Monthan while also providing computer support for users in my 
>> unit. I am going to school for a degree in network security and I 
>> would like to acquire some operational experience in the IT world. 
>> The list seems like a good place to ask this question since it 
>> appears most of you work in or around an IT environment and would be 
>> in the know.
>>
>> Now to my questions, aside from having multiple versions of *nix 
>> installed around the house, what or where would you recommend I look 
>> to acquire some formal experience? My current experience, in addition 
>> to work, includes administering a web server for a school project 
>> running CentOS 5, a personal web server running Slackware 11, dual 
>> booting Windows 7 and Kubuntu 8.10 on my laptop, and dual booting 
>> Vista x64 and Slackware 12.2 on my desktop. Is this enough to count 
>> as experience when applying for an IT position or should I look for 
>> more formal venues like volunteer/internship positions down town? If 
>> so, where is the best place to find out about said positions?
>>
>> Thank you in advance to everyone that takes the time to chime in on this.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Chris
>>
> Paul Lemmons wrote: 
> Chris I will take a stab at this. I am a person that is regularly on 
> interview teams and make recommendations to hire IT professionals or 
> not. I have been at the same company for over 21 years so my 
> observations are going to be somewhat myopic. Even so, I believe that 
> the industry is what it is and there is not a lot of variety.
>
> First, I always approach every resume with the "I want to hire this 
> person" attitude. I hate looking for people to fill positions. I do 
> not know of anybody that does enjoy it. It is very hard to find 
> qualified people. So, I give a lot of "benefit of doubt" and look at 
> resumes fairly closely looking for jewels in the sand. Most resumes 
> are just simply awful. Your two paragraphs above tell me more that 
> most "professional" resumes.
>
> So, I am going to look at the two paragraphs above as your resume. 
> What I see is that you are a hobbyist with no professional experience. 
> This is not as bad as it seems. If given a choice between a person 
> that is a hobbyist and a person with a certification, I will often 
> choose the hobbyist. They are proving, without knowing it, that they 
> enjoy the work and are actively learning, using their own time and 
> initiative. The no professional experience, though, would be a problem.
>
> I would also glean from your first paragraph that you are interested 
> in Network Security. I would try to combine the skills I see with the 
> interest and come to the conclusion that
> there is not a lot of overlap. So, all I have to work with is the fact 
> that you are a talented guy with interest and initiative. Is that 
> enough? Hmmmm
>
> Now I have to look at the job I am filling. If I am looking for a DBA 
> you are out of luck. The same would go for just about all of the hands 
> on technical jobs. The lack of experience is hurting your chances. It 
> may not be fair but it is a fact. We can not afford to educate.
>
> IT is very varied in its needs, though, so I ask a different question. 
> We have a smart fellow here with potential where can we put him that 
> he can prove himself and still be valuable to the company. We actually 
> do need a security guy but your skills are unfinished. So, you are 
> "good with computers" and are currently a "Technician" . I would look 
> at offering you a position as a Desktop engineer: One that sets up, 
> configures, troubleshoots, installs, and generally fixes desktop 
> computers. We have 1,000's of them. This would give you an "in" to the 
> company where we could scope each other out without either of us 
> making a significant investment.
>
> Now, after going through this little hypothetical exercise, I wish I 
> could tell you that we have such a position open. Were I you I would 
> develop a resume that highlights the skills that you do have and look 
> for a job like the one I have described. Watch the employment web 
> sites for companies with lots of employees (equals lost of computers).
>
> Once you get a job, identify the person that has the job you want and 
> open conversation with them by asking their opinion about some of the 
> things you are learning in school. By the time you graduate you will 
> have proved yourself to the one person that can open doors for you.
>
> I hope this was helpful. Good luck!
>

Hi there

I work for a significantly smaller department, and I have recently sat 
in on most of the interviews. I agree wholeheartedly that most of the 
resumes that come in are absolute crap, and I also agree wholeheartedly 
that I would recommend hiring a underqualified hobbyist over someone who 
decided a few years ago that they'd like to get in on this computer 
thing and took some college course. The first question we ask in an 
interview is "Tell me about your first computer", and if their eyes 
light up and they tell you all the hardware specs and all the software 
installed, then we're looking at the right person. If they hum and haw 
and say something like "I think it was a 486 something?" then they're 
not off to a good start.

Our shop is about 50/50 Linux/Windows, so seeing any Linux experience at 
all is a huge plus for us. You obviously have this covered. I suspect 
most businesses would use an Enterprise variant of Linux (RHEL or SuSE), 
but obviously there will be exceptions, and I could easily be wrong here.

We use MySQL on Linux (no flamewars please, you Postgres folks) and MS 
SQL Server 2000/2005 on the Windows side. Any SQL experience is also 
looked upon favorably, it doesn't matter what variant (Informix, Oracle, 
Sybase, etc.). We also use a proprietary language in some of our 
applications, so we like to see some programming experience, and it 
doesn't matter what language it is, as there's no chance you'll actually 
have knowledge of the language that you'll be using.

Given these last two criteria, I'd suggest starting to play with some 
LAMP stack applications, getting used to seeing & working with SQL code 
and PHP or Ruby script. I'd also suggest that if you're having trouble 
finding volunteer work or other formal experience, that you start 
participating in an open source project, as this will be a source of 
experience that is completely transparent to anyone who wishes to search 
the developer forums and source code base online to see how you work 
with others, and to see the quality of your work.

Really though, if you interview well and be sure to mention all this 
informal experience, you'd more than qualify for an entry level position 
with us. As mentioned, a lot of our technologies are proprietary, so 
we're just interested in finding someone who is familiar with the 
underlying concepts, and willing to play with the technologies and learn 
on their own. Be sure to get this attitude and capability across in your 
resume and cover letter, and you'll do well. We also hire a lot of 
ex-military people, be sure to emphasize this as well.

cheers
Jeff