[Tfug] Ideas for the ultimate "Grandma Millie" distro...

Sat Jan 27 16:17:22 MST 2007

On 1/27/07, christopher floess <skeptikos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ok, I don't want to take away from the discussion too much, but is xp
> really
> such a problem? I know it sucks (I should say, is no fun I was never that
> dissatisfied with it), but really, before I stopped running it, I never
> had
> virus probs and never had spyware/malware probs, and aside from zone
> alarm,
> I didn't have any kind of internet security software, definitely never any
> antivirus. Ok, I did get minor adware and such from time to time, but it
> never invaded my system to the point where it would grind to a halt like
> it
> does with some people. Am I really that out of touch with what most
> people's
> computing abilities are/should be. I really don't think I was that good.
> Was
> I just that lucky? I think if I ran into the problems that some people run
> into, I would unplug my  computer all together. Any way kudos for their
> persistence.

We're veering off-topic here, but -

It depends on who you have behind the keyboard.  If you have someone
relatively competent/well-versed in running
a computer and knows in the ins-and-outs of security, then yes, you can run
XP without some problems.  If we were the
Tucson High-Cost Windows Group (THCWG *shudder* - what a shitty acronym), no
doubt we wouldn't experience these kinds of issues
(spyware, malware, et al).  However, we only represent a small portion of
the computing community as a whole - most people treat
their computers as appliances - used for specific tasks and otherwise left
alone.  People don't tinker with computers
at the level we do, and as a result, don't know much (or care to know) about
firewalls, spyware cleanup, etc.

In any case, this doesn't necessarily save XP from other issues.  I have a
laptop I have for work (dual-boot XP/SUSE) and
I'm getting the "time to reformat" feeling on the XP partition.  I've never
really caught this vibe in a Linux environment.  You also
face the exploits that MS may not be willing to patch right away.  While
linux isn't 100% bulletproof, it is a night vs. day difference
with Linux.

I really don't know what the best way is to solve people's puter probs. On
> the one hand, I don't have the time to teach people a whole new OS,
> especially considering that that usually turns into a whole seminar about
> computers in general. On the other hand, I effing hate windows. Once you
> taste liberation, there's no turning back I guess :)

Indeed.  Although with the right group, training is less of an issue.  Jim's
group is a group of older folk, which isn't exactly the perfect condition.

I turned my sister onto linux simply - I nuked the hard drive, and threw
SUSE 9 on there.  Told her how to do what she wanted (play music,
AIM, web-surf, and write documents), and let her take over.  She learned
quickly, and there were no problems at all.  I setup remote-admin
so I could handle other issues on the fly, but she took care of the rest.

-Chris

PS - Sorry for the top-post....

On 1/27/07, john galt <johngalt1 at uswest.net> wrote:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jim March" <>
> > To: "Tucson Free Unix Group" <tfug at tfug.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:14 AM
> > Subject: [Tfug] Ideas for the ultimate "Grandma Millie"
> > distro...
> >
> >
> > > Folks,
> > >
> > > I'm running into a circle of politically active older
> > > folks almost entirely
> > > running XP, "geek genes" about on par with a hampster, and
> > > they're getting
> > > *hammered* by malware.  We're talking dozens now expanding
> > > into hundreds of
> > > these folks just around Tucson.  They use a few basic apps
> > > hard and heavy:
> > > EMail, web, MS-officecrud.  Some do simple photostuff.
> > >
> > > I just spent about 8 hours doing a total "nuke from orbit"
> > > cycle on an XP
> > > laptop, which means talking them into scoring an external
> > > USB drive cheap,
> > > do the backup, reformat, reload, reconfigure.  I am NOT
> > > going to "rinse
> > > lather repeat" on the next 50+, I'll go completely
> > > bugfuck.
> >
> > I too support some older folks on XP. IMHO, moving to Linux
> > would mean my being responsible for 125% of support rather
> > than 20%-80%, if the solution is structured well. What do I
> > mean?
> >
> > Considering the tone of this thread and the problem's
> > solution:
> > http://www.tfug.org/pipermail/tfug_tfug.org/2007-January/013240.html
> > I question whether moving to any Linux is a great idea for
> > the mature crowd. <duck> Please hear me out.
> >
> > If one's solution to XP malware is reformatting and
> > reinstalling, that is suboptimal. That is a waste of time
> > and problems may reoccur if prevention is not comprehensive.
> > Seldom does a case of malware/virii require such an invasive
> > solution, I believe.
> >
> > Instead of spending 8 hours to amputate, instead of
> > stitching up a boo-boo, one could fix the problem in about
> > 2-3. Then with applying a little education of how to
> > maintain their computer, they can be largely self
> > sufficient.
> >
> > Kill the infections and cleanup things-
> >
> > 0.5 Delete Browser cache and Browser helper objects
> > 1  Delete all files in Temp and Tmp directories
> > 2  Disable System Restore temporarily.
> >
> > 3. Install updates and run AntiVirus - I like AVG Free. It
> > works well. I despise Syamntec AV and McAfee.
> > 4. Install updates and run SpyBot Search and Destroy - Best
> > for malware, IMO. Free
> >
> > 5 Autoruns by sysinternals. Free. Find all of the places the
> > malware uses to launch themselves. Eliminate these links to
> > start malware/virii in services, registry entries, Startup,
> > etc
> > 6. Re-run 3&4 until the results come up clean. Reenable
> > System Restore
> >
> > By now the system is probably stable and further effort is
> > just a little maintenance. Symantec AV is such a pig, you
> > might want to eliminate it, if it is installed and try
> > something else
> >
> > 7. Teach someone who touches the PC routinely to make sure
> > the AV and Anti Spyware updates occur and to run scans
> > periodically. Dial-up makes auto updates messy.
> >
> > 8. Teach the users to not look at email spam and trash it
> > instead.
> >
> > 9. Tell them not to click on pop-ups, especially ones from
> > websites that say stuff like "Do you want to install and
> > Run"...
> >
> >
> > But, why not install Linux so they don't have to endure all
> > that maintenance? That's so you won't have to contend with:
> >
> > Gransdon got Grandpa a webcam/capture card/whatever for
> > Christmas, It won't run.
> > The new wireless card/ap/USB dongle doesn't have a
> > Prism/supported chipset.
> > Why doesn't the software we bought at WorstBuy /
> > CircuitShtty load?
> > Feature "X" doesn't work in Linux on my Laptop
> > I can't play the songs I bought.
> >
> > Yeah, but most of these things can be made to run using
> > FOSS. No problem, but maybe you'll have to wait for someone
> > to write a driver for it.
> >
> > Don't misunderstand, I am not flaming FOSS, it's just that
> > Grandpa and Grandma need more of an appliance-type solution,
> > unless you want to be their desktop support
> > /system/application developer.
> >
> > And then, if they feel guilty about asking you for support
> > in the future, they might get help somewhere else.
> > Otherwise, someone will spend another period of time
> > removing Linux and reinstalling XP.
> >
> > just my $.02 and then some.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Tucson Free Unix Group - tfug at tfug.org
> > Subscription Options:
> > http://www.tfug.org/mailman/listinfo/tfug_tfug.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> I worry about viruses like I worry about terrorists
> _______________________________________________
> Tucson Free Unix Group - tfug at tfug.org
> Subscription Options:
> http://www.tfug.org/mailman/listinfo/tfug_tfug.org
>

-- 
Chris Robbins
Systems Programmer
Department of English - University of Arizona
http://www.homerengineeringcorp.net