[Tfug] A sense of time

[Paul Lemmons]

-------- Original Message  --------
Subject: [Tfug] A sense of time
From: Bexley Hall <bexley401 at yahoo.com>
To: tfug at tfug.org
Date: 08/02/2007 04:05 PM
> Hi,
>
> I've periodically posted this question (or variations
> thereof) in a number of different forums.  Obviously,
> never quite happy with the answer(s) I've received
> (I suspect it is yet another unsolvable problem  :< )
>
> <snip>

This is probably the most interesting post I have seen on this list :)

The question appears to be a blend of technical and philosophical 
thought. The primary question is "What is time?". If we could ever 
really get a definitive answer to that we may be able to find a 
technical solution. Time is not what is on our clock, on our calendar or 
a relationship between our planet and its physical position in the 
universe. All of those devices are man-made creations that help us 
measure the effect of Time.

For example Time exists without the definition of a second. It exists on 
planets that have no rotation, thus no "Day". It exists in the absence 
of anything to measure it. We have only been able to recognize that it 
exists at all because we see it as a phenomena. As such we have studied 
it and come up with terms to help us deal with it. Terms such as second 
and minute and year. These terms try to explain the phenomena of time 
but do not define it. For example: I can say it is 09:29:07am but I can 
also say it is 10:29:07am and still be correct. It happens all the time, 
when I call somebody to the east of me. Time is not the terms we use to 
describe it.

If I read the post correctly, you are looking for a way for us to mark 
our position in time consistently and accurately. In your mind the 
technology of "keeping time" should reflect more the reality of time and 
not the terms we use that relate to it. Monitored and recorded events 
should always relate in a consistent way to previous events. If one 
event (file creation) precedes another event (file update), the latter 
should reflect the delta between the two events accurately. There should 
not be any way that the latter should precede the former.

All of the tools we use operate on establishing a point in time and 
marking time following that event. The month is August: 8 months from 
the beginning of a new year. It is 9am: 9 hours from the start of a new 
day. It is 2007: 2007 years from the birth of Christianity. When we set 
our clocks on our PC's we establish the starting point and the hardware 
tries its best to keep an accurate count of crystal oscillations so as 
to measure the time that has transpired between the setting of the start 
point and "now".

The problem is that we have the ability to set that start time to be 
anything we want it to be. There is nothing that keeps us from lying to 
the hardware. What we need is the ability to force a starting time on a 
computer that is predefined and immutable. This has been solved in other 
technologies. I think of the GPS systems and the various public atomic 
clocks that are available. I am wearing a watch that picks up the time 
from the air and is highly accurate.

Because our marking of time is our own creation we will always be 
dependent on some device of our making to set the starting point for 
other devices. There must exist some "gold standard" for getting that 
initial starting place. It is not rational for every device to have the 
ability to watch the stars, calculate our position in the universe and 
report a calculated time reference. We must depend on something else to 
do that for us. In developed countries we currently we have access to 
these types of sources via the air, internet, cell towers, satellite and 
phone. The choice of which technology to use is based on the resources 
we have when developing the devices that depend on it.

Clearly, as Ben has stated, we are not there yet. It is not a problem in 
search of a solution. It is a solution in search of an implementation. 
We can not continue to use current solutions because the initial 
starting point for time calculations are under our control. The solution 
will have to involve taking that control away from us. Perhaps future 
hardware can have have components that can extract the time from various 
sources. If you have a network card, maybe it could have a component 
that taps the internet source for time. A radio on the mother-board that 
picks up time form the air. As computers and wireless networks such as 
G3 become more ubiquitous they could be imbued with the ability to take 
time from cell towers. I believe the days of setting time via the 
land-line phone are limited but a huge percentage of people still 
connect to other networks via a modem. Modems could easily be made to 
deliver correct time.

So, there are solutions. They are just not ubiquitous enough to be 
depended on. What we need to do is to communicate our desires to the 
engineers of today and tomorrow so that the solutions become reality 
instead of wishes,

-- 
Sometimes I wonder.  Were our faith able to stand upright and look around, would it be looking down at the mustard seed or standing in awe of the height and bredth of it.