[Tfug] email etiquette authorities abound

[sitkaa at email.arizona.edu]

It is hard for me to take this seriously. I have been using email for quite
sometime. Years? Decades? Eons? Time enough for time to melt away, puddling in
the back of my mind as an apathetic quagmire of email soup. To quote Hamlet
"Words. Words. Words, Horatio."

For me to now find that again I know nothing about computers - an all 
too common
experience for me - well, I guess that is just about all I know, then. 
Oh well.

Here are some self-proported authorities on the subject. And they are 
just a tip
of the icecube. For you bottom-bloggers out there, more commentary is at the
bottom of this email. I noticed nothing in any of the articles about
top-posting versus bottom-posting, not that I read a lick of it, mind you.



http://www.gweep.ca/~edmonds/usenet/ml-etiquette.html

http://www.emailreplies.com/

http://www.iwillfollow.com/email.htm

http://www.library.yale.edu/training/netiquette/

http://www.cs.queensu.ca/FAQs/email/etiquette.html

http://www.learnthenet.com/english/html/65mailet.htm

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/pw/p_emailett.html

http://careerplanning.about.com/od/communication/a/email_etiquette.htm

http://www.writerswrite.com/journal/dec99/pirillo1.htm

http://www.emailaddresses.com/guide_etiquette.htm

http://www.career.vt.edu/JOBSEARC/emailetiquette.htm

http://www.onlinenetiquette.com/

http://www.albion.com/netiquette/

http://www.dynamoo.com/technical/etiquette.htm

http://www.jobweb.com/resources/library/Correspondence_for_the_Job/Email_Etiquette_A_209_01.htm

http://www.cit.gu.edu.au/~davidt/email_etiquette.htm

http://www.lse.ac.uk/itservices/Rules/email.htm

http://www.fau.edu/netiquette/net/elec.html

Quoting dave <quantumnonlocality at gmail.com>:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Claude Rubinson
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not directed at anyone in particular but 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's been a rash of people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Stephen Hooper
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Josh Miller
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's "top posting"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Glenn Shannon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually my email program lets me view the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> messages in order of receipt,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Jim Secan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I tend to not top-post, but sometimes I do 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it makes more sense
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Nathanial Hendler
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting, I didn't know this bothered anyone 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else.  For years I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: amperry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe the critical difference is between emails sent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Robert Hunter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wikipedia has a nice article on the subject:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Christopher Robbins
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There was a big blowup in the early days of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opensuse listserv where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: t takahashi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muas do make a big difference.  they can encourage one 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> style over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: sitkaa
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now That I know what top-posting is, I will strive, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when replying to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Benjamin Krein
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I prefer top posting to bottom posting.  I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like the reply
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Stephen Hooper
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think context is important. As an example, ancient 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Numdians were
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Nathanial Hendler
>>>>>>>>>>>> They sure were!
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Brian Murphy
>>>>>>>>>>> If you write contextual (bottom-post), you're supposed to 
>>>>>>>>>>> trim the cruft
>>>>>>>>>> From: Chris Hill
>>>>>>>>>> My father was an ancient Numdian, and I top post in tribute to his
>>>>>>>>> From: Glenn Shannon
>>>>>>>>> I don't understand.
>>>>>>>> From: Stephen Hooper
>>>>>>>> (: uoy sesaelp ti yaw reve hcihW
>>>>>>> From: johngalt
>>>>>>> Poor grammar and spelling is really annoying too, especially to those
>>>>>> From: Glen Pfeiffer
>>>>>> So is double posting. ;-)
>>>>> From: Claude Rubinson
>>>>> Note how effective in-line posting is for pointing out others'
>>>> From: Matthew Eskes
>>>> Hrm, Seems that outlook threads it all on its own so its not like this
>>> From: John Gruenenfelder
>>> Okay, I've had enough.  This discussion has been entirely too good
>> From: Matthew Eskes <meskes at azcomputercentral.com>
>> So, if I'm going to be a Nazi about something I would have to say that
>
> oh wow! i never knew how cool bottom-posting could be...
> _______________________________________________
> tfug mailing list
> tfug at tfug.org
> http://www.tfug.org/mailman/listinfo/tfug


To quote someone who seems to know what this stuff all means:

Mailing List Etiquette FAQ

Copyright 1996-2004 Brian Edmonds

$Revision: 1.14 $ $Date: 2004/08/12 13:50:50 $

This document may be freely retransmitted in Usenet or email; permission to
reproduce in any other media should be requested from the author, Brian 
Edmonds
<brian at gweep.ca>. The latest edition of this FAQ can be found on the web at:

http://www.gweep.ca/~edmonds/usenet/ml-etiquette.html
http://www.gweep.ca/~edmonds/usenet/ml-etiquette.txt

There have been a number of documents written about netiquette, most of them
quite good, and this FAQ will probably seem to some to be little more than a
retelling of an old story. Those that I know of are listed below, and I
gratefully acknowledge both their instruction and their inspiration in writing
this FAQ. Primarily this is aimed towards subscribers to the mailing lists
which I run personally, but I would like to think that it should apply equally
to most any other list. If you run a mailing list, and would like to send new
members copies, or include links to this in your list web page, please do.

RFC1855: Netiquette Guidelines
Emily Postnews Answers Your Questions on Netiquette
A Primer on How to Work With the Usenet Community
Rules for posting to Usenet
How to Write Like A Wanker
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way



Contents
Contents
How do I post to the list?
Is there anything I should not post to the list?
Are there any important formatting considerations?
Is properly grammer and speeling imprtnt, d00dz?
How long can I make my .sig?
Should I ``crosspost'' to multiple lists?
Can I post binaries, or other large files to the list?
When replying, should I quote the previous message?
Should I mail a copy to the person I'm replying to?
I've been insulted! How should I respond?
My posting hasn't shown up on the list! What do I do?
I've been subscribed to the bounces list! What does this mean?
I'm not getting any mail from the list! What's wrong!
I've got a problem not answered here! What do I do?

How do I post to the list?

When you subscribed, you probably received an information file about the list.
Included in this information is usually the mail address to which posts should
be mailed. Typically, if you contacted the address
wilma-request at mail.server.site to subscribe to the group, then the posting
address will be wilma at mail.server.site. Or, if you contacted a LISTSERV or
Majordomo server at mail.server.site to subscribe to the list betty, then the
list address will likewise be betty at mail.server.site.

When replying to messages you receive from the list, you should acquaint
yourself with the reply options of your mail reader. Most mail programs will
have at least two reply modes: private and group. A private reply will go only
to the person who sent the original message. A group reply by default 
should go
to the original author, the list, and to any people who received 
private copies
of the original message. You should be able to edit this list of addresses to
reduce it to just the list address, plus any other people you think should
receive private copies.

Please make sure that your postings have a meaningful subject line, as many
people use this to help determine which posts to read and which to ignore when
they're operating under time constraints. If you're replying to a message and
the topic of your reply is drifting from the original subject, then edit it. A
common convention is to change a subject of ``Wilma's hair'' to ``Betty's hair
(was Wilma's hair)'' when you do this to provide continuity between the
threads. Try to snip off any obsolete ``was'' bits though, or subject 
lines can
get unmanageably long.

Finally, do not use deceptive subject lines that you think may help attract
attention. It may work once or twice, but like the boy who cried wolf, if you
keep wasting people's time in this way, they'll soon start ignoring your posts
entirely. Honesty, clarity and conciseness are the best policy when composing
your subject line.


Is there anything I should not post to the list?

The basic rule is that as long as your post has some content related to the
primary subject of the list, and does not contain much off-topic 
material, then
it is fine for the list. Specifically, for almost every list, this will
immediately rule out many or all commercial ads, postings on how to make money
(such as MAKE MONEY FAST), sociology surveys, help with homework, hot
international news, and requests for people to send birthday greetings to your
friend.

Also, you should not post inflammatory (aka flame) mail to the list. It is
perfectly fine to disagree with people publicly, but be careful how you do it.
For example, if you think someone is lying on a subject, it may be fine to say
``Betty's claims about Wilma's hair stylist are a lie,'' but it is over the
line to say ``Betty is a liar''.

On the flip side, if someone posts something with which you are in particular
agreement, that's great. You should not, however, follow up to the list with a
post containing no more than ``Me too!'' or ``Right on, brother!'' If you have
something of substance to add to the discussion, then by all means do so, but
if you simply wish to express a simple agreement, then do it in private mail.

You should not post subscribe or unsubscribe requests to the list. They 
won't do
any good there, and will do little more than annoy other subscribers (unless
they're filtered out by the list server, in which case they will only 
annoy the
list owner: not exactly a winning move either). When you subscribe to 
the list,
you should receive a file explaining among other things, how to unsubscribe:
keep this! If worst come to worst, and you really cannot figure out how to
leave the list, contact the list owner and ask (politely) for help.

You should also not repost private email to the list unless you have obtained
prior consent from the author. Such reposting is at best considered extremely
rude, and in some legal jurisdictions may be a violation of copyright, 
or other
rights of the original author.

See also the related section on binaries and other large files.


Are there any important formatting considerations?

Visual formatting is very important in a textual medium like email. If your
postings are poorly formatted, they will be hard to read, and people will tire
of them quickly. As a result, fewer people will read what you write to 
the end,
and many will begin to skip your posts entirely.

Most importantly, learn to use the enter (or return) key on your keyboard. The
video display width of many network users is limited to 80 columns, and text
which wraps beyond that length is quite a bit more difficult to read. Since
your text may be indented when quoted by others you should keep your 
lines to a
maximum length somewhere below that point -- around 70 characters is a good
target. There are of course exceptions, such as wide tables, and long 
URLs, but
the rule is to keep it well under 80.

Be careful if you use a program which wraps your posts when you send them. If
you wrap at a wider column than it does, you may end up with alternating long
and short lines where it wraps one or two words from each long line, but fails
to join them to the next. If you know that your software operates this 
way, you
may be best off to simply write each paragraph as one long line, and let it do
all the wrapping. Be very sure that this is the case though, as postings that
come through with really long, single line paragraphs are also annoying to
read.

Wrapping at a considerably narrower margin, such as 40 characters is also more
difficult to read, as one must page down much more often. However, don't be
afraid to use blank lines to separate your paragraphs, and do break your text
into paragraphs. In fact, keeping paragraphs fairly short is also easier to
read; around ten lines is a good upper limit.

Be careful when using tabs for indenting, as they will display differently on
other platforms. Also, avoid control characters and other fancy visual effects
which are likely platform specific. When composing (and reading) mail, you're
best to stick with a mono-spaced font (as opposed to proportionally spaced),
and avoid anything other than the most basic text you can use to get your
message across.


Is properly grammer and speeling imprtnt, d00dz?

Like formatting, grammar and spelling are also very important in a textual
medium. One author, whose name I have forgotten, has compared posting material
containing glaring grammar and spelling mistakes with being dirty and unkempt
in personal contacts. In any case, your postings reflect on you, so you should
be proud of them.

Also keep in mind, that with the proliferation of network indexing 
services, it
is becoming easier all the time to quickly compile a personality profile of a
network user based on what he or she posts, both to Usenet, and 
(currently to a
lesser extent) on mailing lists. Be aware that your friends, family, romantic
interests, and employers (current and future) will all have access to this
information. Again, others will judge you based on both what you say, and how
you say it, so give each posting careful thought.

On the flip side, it is generally not worthwhile to publicly correct the
spelling or grammar in something written by someone else. For many 
users on the
net, English is not their first language, and even for some for whom it 
is, they
may have disabilities which prevent them from using it as easily as 
others. Some
people will appreciate correction, and take it as a learning 
experience, but it
should always be done via private mail (never publicly), and you should tread
carefully.

Finally, do use punctuation, and put spaces in the right places around 
it. Also,
use capitalization properly (NO SHOUTING, please), and avoid using short forms
such as dropping vowels, or substituting 4/for, u/you, r/are and so on. Such
practices might make things easier for you, but it makes deciphering your
writing that much harder for everyone else who you're expecting to read 
it. You
can make an exception for smilies and common acronyms, such as OTOH, 
YMMV, BTW,
and such, but don't overdo it, and be careful not to confuse your audience.

In short, to borrow from the informal guideline given in many network 
protocols:
be conservative in what you produce and liberal in what you accept.


How long can I make my .sig?

Ideally it should be as short as possible while still getting across whatever
you feel is important that it contain. The very best .sig of all is probably
just a single line with your name and email address. Remember that while an
ASCII graphic or witty saying may be cool the first time, it's going to be
boring by the time someone sees it five times, and if it's large enough to
attract the eye, will get annoying very quickly.

Unlike news, where space is relatively cheap, so larger sigs are more
forgivable, and four lines or more is typically the norm, mailing lists feed
into a person's private mailbox. Thus, each subscriber is paying for 
every byte
you send them, so if too much of that is a .sig which contains no useful
information, but is just repeated over and over, many people will 
quickly start
to feel less favourably inclined towards your contributions to the list.


Should I ``crosspost'' to multiple lists?

Almost always, the answer to this is no. Most mailing lists are topically
disjoint, and there is very little that is equally appropriate for 
posting to a
number of them. It can also be annoying, as usually subscribers will 
get a copy
of your message for each list they're on that you post to -- more than two or
three of those and you can have a lot of annoyed people knocking on your
mailbox.

That said, there may be some occasional instances where it would be 
appropriate
to post to a number of lists at once. If you think this is the case, then you
should probably contact the owner of each list and make sure that they agree
before proceeding.


Can I post binaries, or other large files to the list?

Almost always, the answer to this is no. Mail sent to mailing lists is going
into subscribers' private mailboxes, some of which are not set up to handle
really large pieces of mail. Typically, you should put large files up 
on an ftp
or web site, and then post an announcement to the list with 
instructions on how
to access the files. If you do not have access to ftp or web facilities,
contact the owner of the list, and she or he may be able to help you out.

There may be a few cases where posting such material would be appropriate, but
you should definitely contact the list owner first and make sure you have his
or her approval before doing so.


When replying, should I quote the previous message?

Most certainly. You should always provide some context to your replies so that
people who may not have been following the thread closely, or who have other
things on their minds will easily be able to determine what you're talking
about.

However, when quoting, be very careful to edit the quoted sections down to the
bare minimum of text needed to maintain the context for your reply. There is
very little on a mailing list that is more annoying than paging through a few
pages of quoted text only to read a few lines at the end. Also be careful that
you clearly indicate what text you're quoting (as opposed to what you're
writing), and if possible, cite the author of the original text.

If your mail program wants to attach the whole message you're replying 
to on the
end of your replies, please do not let it do this if you can possibly 
avoid it.
It is a good thing to include excerpts from previous messages with your 
replies
to maintain a logical flow of discussion, but it is almost always a bad 
thing to
include the entire text of a message being replied to, be it at the 
start or end
of your reply.


Should I mail a copy to the person I'm replying to?

That depends, but usually the answer is no. Unlike news, where followups may
take days to reach the original author, and may sometimes never make it 
at all,
mail service is typically faster and more reliable. Also unlike news, private
copies of postings to mailing lists will result in multiple copies arriving in
the recipient's mailbox, rather than just one. Unless you have good reason to
believe that the person needs your answer as soon as possible, then they'll
probably thank you if you stick with just sending it to the list.


I've been insulted! How should I respond?

Ah, congratulations. You've never been properly welcomed to the net 
until you've
been flamed. Your response can take a number of forms. The first and most
important thing you should do is to take a break and cool off. Replies written
in the heat of anger are seldom any better than the postings which inspire
them. Revenge is a dish best served cold, as they say.

Now that you've cooled off, go back and consider the offending material again.
If it's nothing but baseless lies and fabrications that no rational person
would believe, then the best response is to completely ignore it. If it
contains material that you would consider to be of a slanderous or threatening
nature, then you may wish to forward a copy to the user's postmaster and
request that they have a word with the individual about the proper use of the
net.

If, on the other hand, the posting contains inaccuracies which you feel 
need to
be addressed, then it is perfectly reasonable to send a followup message which
does so. However, the ideal approach is to ignore any hysteria, and stick with
the facts. Be reasonable and rational, point out your attacker's errors, and
their attack will usually collapse around them. In particular, avoid any
personal attacks on an individual's intelligence, age, character, etc. At the
very least, if you cultivate a reputation of being level-headed, then most
people will gladly give you the benefit of the doubt over a knee-jerk flamer.

The final option is to flame them in return, but be very careful when deciding
on this course of action. Well crafted flames are a thing of beauty, but are
extremely difficult to write. The ultimate goal of a flame should be that the
recipient know deep in his or her heart that s/he has been terribly insulted,
but s/he should not consciously be able to figure out why s/he feels this way.


My posting hasn't shown up on the list! What do I do?

Probably, just be patient. Sometimes the list server will be off-line, 
or be too
busy with other things to deal with your mail right away. Also, some lists are
restricted to posts by subscribers only, and if the address you post from does
not match the one you're subscribed under, your posting may be delayed for
approval by the list owner. If the list owner is away or busy, then it may be
some time before your message gets approved.

If a few days go by with no sign of your post, then the next step should be to
write the list owner and inquire if there's a problem. Include as much
information as you can regarding what your original posting was about. 
If still
nothing has happened after a week, and if your message is still relevant, then
it's probably entirely reasonable to post it again. Mail is generally more
reliable than news, but things still get lost occasionally.


I've been subscribed to the bounces list! What does this mean?

This means that your email account has, for at least a short period, been
refusing to accept messages from the mailing list. This may happen 
because your
mailbox has filled up (i.e. over quota), or it may be due to system 
problems at
your site, or even network problems beyond local control. Every time a
subscriber's mailbox starts bouncing mail, a copy of each posting to the list
is returned to the list owner. Even if only a small percentage of addresses on
a list are having problems at any one time, for a large and/or busy list this
can add up to quite a bit of mail.

Some list owners will simply unsubscribe offending accounts from the 
list, while
others will have the option of moving bouncing accounts to a separate list.
Majordomo, in particular, supports a bounces list, to which bouncing addresses
can be moved, and which will provide a daily reminder to addresses on the list
that their status has changed. Included in these reminders are instructions on
how to get off of the bounces list, and rejoin whatever list(s) you were
originally on.


I'm not getting any mail from the list! What's wrong!

Well, most likely this simply means that no one is posting anything. If you've
got something to say, then post it and see if you can start up the discussion
again. Do not, however, send a ``test message'' to the list, as it's unlikely
that all the subscribers want to receive such junk mail. It's perfectly
reasonable for a list to be dormant for long periods between bursts of 
traffic,
as not all topics can be interesting all the time.

On the other hand, it is also possible that you are no longer 
subscribed to the
list, whether due to your mailbox bouncing for too long, or due to some other
system error. The easiest way to determine if this is the case is simply to
resubscribe to the list. If you're already on the list, then the list server
should return a message stating as much; if not, then you're back on the list
and the problem is solved.

The final possibility is that the list has died, whether this is due to the
owner not paying his bills, just getting sick of the whole thing, or 
some other
reason, who knows. In this situation, the best course of action is to 
attempt to
contact the list owner and verify the problem. If it turns out that the 
list has
been shut down on a permanent basis, then you may be able to obtain the 
old list
of subscribers and restart the list yourself. If a full subscriber list is not
available, then you'll have to contact everyone you knew from the list and
decide where to go from there.


I've got a problem not answered here! What do I do?

Your best resource is the list owner. If you do not actually know who that is,
for a list named wilma at mail.server.site, typically mail to either
owner-wilma at mail.server.site or wilma-owner at mail.server.site will reach the
list owner. If neither of these work, then contact postmaster at mail.server.site
and inquire how to reach the owner of the list.


Brian Edmonds, August 12, 2004







Don't you love authority? I mean how could we possibly live without 
authority in
our lives? It would be utter chaos! Anarchy! The horror of it all!

No, no; authority is the better way to organize ourselves, very much, muchly.