[Tfug] Re: Newbie Follow-Up Question

[Harry McGregor]

On Fri, 5 Jul 2002, Tom Rini wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 05, 2002 at 03:07:42AM -0700, Bowie J. Poag wrote:
>
> > > All of the software is up to date, and very stable, as well as being
> > > tracked in the package management database.
> >
> > Ahhhhhhh, okay. Now I get it. So Debian "stable" ___isn't___.
>
> No.  Someone just told Chris to go and install woody, which is on it's
> way to being stable, for some unknown reason.

Well, I am that someone, and the reason I recomended it was that _I_ was
the person who would be helping him install.  The only problems I have run
into with woody for over a year and a half are install related.

> The biggest problem with Debian is all of the people telling newbies to
> go and use woody, which is almost but not quite sane (IIRC, the bit
> where it will install woody and then try and grab 'stable' (-> currently
> potato) packages was known and intentional.  I'm not sure if it was/will
> be changed) instead of potato which really is stable & solid.  woody is
> fine, as long as you remember the half dozen caviats and tricks for a
> beta install.  Like Red Hat's LIMBO. :)

Well, the CD Snapshot two months ago did not have the problem...

> > > Well, I was intending to help Chris with his problem at the last meeting,
> > > unfortunatly he did not show up as planned.  The problem was due to a bug
> > > in the current woody snapshot cds (setting stable as the apt source
> > > instead of testing).
> >
> > He didnt go to the meeting for the same reason I dont answer the door when I
> > see Jehovas Witnesses outside. Nobody likes a cult member trying to push an
> > agenda, Harry!
>
> ... and now we see why Bowie is usually killfiled. :)

Yep.

> > > And why is that?  You spend how much of your time installing?  How much of
> > > your time making sure that the system is up to date, and security patched,
> > > and running smoothly?
> >
> > Zero time, zero effort. I have the before-mentioned up2date command thrown
> > in a crontab. My Red Hat box updates itself hourly without my even knowing
> > about it.
>
> Hourly update without user intervention?  Is that really a good thing?
> The following is my overly elaborate script that I run every once in a
> while to update any debian box (it requires deborphan to be installed
> if you want the last part):
> #! /bin/bash
>
> # Clear the screen.
> clear
>
> # Run our normal apt tasks, and exit if one of them fails.
> apt-get update || exit 1
> apt-get upgrade || exit 1
> apt-get clean || exit 1
>
> # Test for any cruftly libraries we might now have on the system, and
> # if we have any, remove them.
> while `true`; do
>         if [ "`deborphan`" == "" ]; then
>                 break
>         else
>                 for i in `deborphan`; do
>                         echo $i purge | dpkg --set-selections
>                 done
>                 dpkg --purge --pending
>         fi
> done
>
> > > Yes, the debian install is a little more painful the first 10-20 times you
> > > install, but the ease of management in the long run pays for itself in no
> > > time at all.
> >
> > Uhhhh...10 to 20?  Harry? Helllooooo.....
>
> Yes, the debian/potato installer isn't nearly as purty or automatic as Red Hat
> 7.x (or Mandrake 8.x or current SuSE).

But it is just as effective, and gives the user more "power" over the
install.

		Harry

> --
> Tom Rini (TR1265)
> http://gate.crashing.org/~trini/
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--
Harry McGregor, CEO, Co-Founder
Hmcgregor@osef.org, (520) 661-7875 (CELL)
Open Source Education Foundation, http://www.osef.org